GTR versus Z06
05-03-2007 | 12:21 PM
#11
Newbie
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5
LOL, Whey howe tor goy int thare (there you go continue to make fun of my spelling as if your ignorance on the subject will be made to no effect)
There is no way this car will run mid to low 7:30's, maybe the Z-tune version, and if lingenfelter did make a complete car for the ring I would put my money on it anyday over a Z-tune. It's funny how there were only two guys in here making out, where is all the support for your claims?????
In stock trim this car (unless equiped with Michelin Sport Cups) wont even break into the 1:40's. Will be closer to 1:45. I dont know what you guys are smoking in here but it sure helps you to spell good and make no sense.
There is no way this car will run mid to low 7:30's, maybe the Z-tune version, and if lingenfelter did make a complete car for the ring I would put my money on it anyday over a Z-tune. It's funny how there were only two guys in here making out, where is all the support for your claims?????
In stock trim this car (unless equiped with Michelin Sport Cups) wont even break into the 1:40's. Will be closer to 1:45. I dont know what you guys are smoking in here but it sure helps you to spell good and make no sense.
Last edited by heavychevy; 05-03-2007 at 08:05 PM.
05-03-2007 | 12:42 PM
#12
GTR Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
you mean 7:30s. not 1:30s. Nurburgring times are around 8:00 or less, thereabouts.
what we're trying to tell you is that the GT-R has been available in the past as model variants, similar in scale as what Porsche offers; this will happen again. the top-shelf GT-R will more than likely fully eclipse the 997tt, more than likely the GT3, and probably nearing a Carrera GT level of performance --probably.
is it proven that any of this will come to bear? no.
is it all a "sure thing?" no!
but based upon what i know about the GT-R, it's history, Nissan's philosophy and culture, the intent behind the concept, what they have done recently, it's damn near highly probable! more than you think!
what we're trying to tell you is that the GT-R has been available in the past as model variants, similar in scale as what Porsche offers; this will happen again. the top-shelf GT-R will more than likely fully eclipse the 997tt, more than likely the GT3, and probably nearing a Carrera GT level of performance --probably.
is it proven that any of this will come to bear? no.
is it all a "sure thing?" no!
but based upon what i know about the GT-R, it's history, Nissan's philosophy and culture, the intent behind the concept, what they have done recently, it's damn near highly probable! more than you think!
05-03-2007 | 06:49 PM
#13
GTR Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 64
05-03-2007 | 07:48 PM
#14
Thread Starter
GTR Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40
LOL, Whey howe tor goy int thare (there you go continue to make fun of my spelling as if your ignorance on the subject will be made to no effect)
There is no way this car will run mid to low 1:30's, maybe the Z-tune version, and if lingenfelter did make a complete car for the ring I would put my money on it anyday over a Z-tune. It's funny how there were only two guys in here making out, where is all the support for your claims?????
In stock trim this car (unless equiped with Michelin Sport Cups) wont even break into the 1:40's. Will be closer to 1:45. I dont know what you guys are smoking in here but it sure helps you to spell good and make no sense.
There is no way this car will run mid to low 1:30's, maybe the Z-tune version, and if lingenfelter did make a complete car for the ring I would put my money on it anyday over a Z-tune. It's funny how there were only two guys in here making out, where is all the support for your claims?????
In stock trim this car (unless equiped with Michelin Sport Cups) wont even break into the 1:40's. Will be closer to 1:45. I dont know what you guys are smoking in here but it sure helps you to spell good and make no sense.
As a Vette owner and future GTR owner I am very excited to see what the future holds. I will second or third what is said above and say that ALL of us on this forum will be severely disappointed if the GTR doesn't perform---but most of us have substantiated history to think it will. Fast and cool cars are fascinating---total brand allegiance is just plain ignorant and closed minded. People on this forum, as you will find, are widely knowledgeable about cars other than Nissan, and like myself enjoy owning and driving other brands of cars such as LS based cars very much.
"Ricers" simply won't be able to buy this car, just as a majority of people including myself would not be able to buy the Blue Devil/SS even if we wanted to(unless you have a broker and are like Jay Leno). The GTR is an attainable supercar, and is different and definitely not common----very cool idea in itself.
05-03-2007 | 08:31 PM
#15
Newbie
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5
To answer that question. Why should 500 people post the same thing that one person has posted oh so well. Do you think that Bonze got the title "GTR Forums Guru" because he likes Hyundai's? I mean come on. How much clearer does it need to be for you? The GTR has a fantastic and awesome history. With all my heart, I don't believe Nissan has it in them to build a "mediocre" (careful there, that's a big word) GTR. It would seriously damage their reputation, among other things. And unlike some other forums, this isn't a place to pick a fight, so stop trying. Just because a bunch of people don't post in this thread touting how good they thing the GTR is or is going to be, doesn't mean we don't care. The Nissan Skyline/GTR has had a silent following for years. Do not mistake that silence for stupidity. You will sorely regret it, to be sure. Have a nice day!
E-threats, nice...
I dont doubt the history of the GT-R and if you study your history books so well, you'll know that the GT-R is only revered to a higher level here because they have (until recently) been so hard to obtain. Let anyone who lives in the east tell you, that GT-R's are common place and, though great performers, are no magic car, especially by todays standards. I guess in all your studies in your GT-R history books you attain the ability to look past the obvious:
-The car will be heavy
-The car will be AWD
-The car will be underpowered (by todays standards)
-I know you've seen the videos of the GT-R losing to the 997 turbo at Infineon raceway and barely besting it at another, how do you think the car will go from barely hanging with the 997 turbo to beating the Z06 and nearing the Carrera GT, I'm positive there are no carrera gt's in your history books
There is a reason Nissan officials target the 997 turbo, because it's the only top of the line porsche that the GT-R even has a chance of beating. GT3 (NO!) GT2 (double no!!!) Carrera GT (have you lost your mind???). The fact of the matter is that Japan has gotten left behind by their self imposed horsepower regulations and it takes a hell of a lot more to be top dog in these times than it did before. you cant ignore that no matter what history book you are reading.
I'm glad you guys love your car and brand, nothing wrong with that but you have to look at the facts as well, the GT-R will be a great car, no doubt, but top dog is out of reach (by far) for this one.
05-03-2007 | 08:36 PM
#16
Newbie
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5
First of all HEAVY, Lingenfelter was a a drag racer par excellence and tragically died doing such, not a road or circuit racer, so as much as I revere him I would never assume they would build a better Ring car than Nismo. The best bet for a fast circuit Vette would most likely be someone like Katech with their C5 and C6R experience. You make alot of assumptions here, especially with times, and none of them are logical.
As a Vette owner and future GTR owner I am very excited to see what the future holds. I will second or third what is said above and say that ALL of us on this forum will be severely disappointed if the GTR doesn't perform---but most of us have substantiated history to think it will. Fast and cool cars are fascinating---total brand allegiance is just plain ignorant and closed minded. People on this forum, as you will find, are widely knowledgeable about cars other than Nissan, and like myself enjoy owning and driving other brands of cars such as LS based cars very much.
"Ricers" simply won't be able to buy this car, just as a majority of people including myself would not be able to buy the Blue Devil/SS even if we wanted to(unless you have a broker and are like Jay Leno). The GTR is an attainable supercar, and is different and definitely not common----very cool idea in itself.
As a Vette owner and future GTR owner I am very excited to see what the future holds. I will second or third what is said above and say that ALL of us on this forum will be severely disappointed if the GTR doesn't perform---but most of us have substantiated history to think it will. Fast and cool cars are fascinating---total brand allegiance is just plain ignorant and closed minded. People on this forum, as you will find, are widely knowledgeable about cars other than Nissan, and like myself enjoy owning and driving other brands of cars such as LS based cars very much.
"Ricers" simply won't be able to buy this car, just as a majority of people including myself would not be able to buy the Blue Devil/SS even if we wanted to(unless you have a broker and are like Jay Leno). The GTR is an attainable supercar, and is different and definitely not common----very cool idea in itself.
I am not brand loyal, dont judge me by my name, I love all types of cars and I get bashed on any site for keeping it real. I have been called a porschephile on corvette forums and a vette fanboy on 6speedonline. I am completely realistic when I speak and have no bias towards any brand make or model, just happen to go agaisnt the grain most of the time.
05-03-2007 | 10:50 PM
#17
GTR Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 83
Well this thread has certainly got spun up well.
Bonzelite had many good points about enjoying all cars. They are each different, with each having its own endearing qualities. To be brand loyal to a single make or car, whether Chevy or Nissan, is your choice, but it merely makes you apear a novice when dicussing motorsports.
I've had the privledge of owning both an Skyline R32 GTR and C5 Z51, and have tracked both of them. Each was imensely enjoyable and thrilling to drive, but in decidedly different ways. Each was stock, so the C5 had more power and was a sexy machine and had much more content than my older R32 GTR. However, the GTR felt more nimble and was a joy to handle in the wet or while in a 4 wheel drift. The C5 felt like a larger car than it was, but was much more stable at triple digit MPH than the R32 GTR.
I haven't driven either the new C6 ZO6 or the new GTR, but my guess is that they will each be different and enjoyable in their own way. By all accounts the ZO6 is a light weight, track warrior for the street that is loud, hot, and a handful in the wet. The GTR will likely be more polished in manners and have more amenities, with impeccable manners in the wet. It is likely to have less power and more weight than the ZO6, and you can speculate what that means on the track. **( My prediction is that in the big auto rag comparos [R&T, MT, C&D] the GTR will get narrowly edged out in pure performance by Porsche and ZO6, but may still win the comparo because of overall value and driving impression).
Just as with the Viper, Vette, and Porsche, these cars are made for different markets in which few buyers are likely to cross-shop. It appears Nissan will have created yet another niche in a very small market with the new GTR.
Good, bad, or ugly... one thing is for sure the new GTR is coming and the demand will likely far outpace supply for the first two years.
Go forth and enjoy speed!
_AL
Bonzelite had many good points about enjoying all cars. They are each different, with each having its own endearing qualities. To be brand loyal to a single make or car, whether Chevy or Nissan, is your choice, but it merely makes you apear a novice when dicussing motorsports.
I've had the privledge of owning both an Skyline R32 GTR and C5 Z51, and have tracked both of them. Each was imensely enjoyable and thrilling to drive, but in decidedly different ways. Each was stock, so the C5 had more power and was a sexy machine and had much more content than my older R32 GTR. However, the GTR felt more nimble and was a joy to handle in the wet or while in a 4 wheel drift. The C5 felt like a larger car than it was, but was much more stable at triple digit MPH than the R32 GTR.
I haven't driven either the new C6 ZO6 or the new GTR, but my guess is that they will each be different and enjoyable in their own way. By all accounts the ZO6 is a light weight, track warrior for the street that is loud, hot, and a handful in the wet. The GTR will likely be more polished in manners and have more amenities, with impeccable manners in the wet. It is likely to have less power and more weight than the ZO6, and you can speculate what that means on the track. **( My prediction is that in the big auto rag comparos [R&T, MT, C&D] the GTR will get narrowly edged out in pure performance by Porsche and ZO6, but may still win the comparo because of overall value and driving impression).
Just as with the Viper, Vette, and Porsche, these cars are made for different markets in which few buyers are likely to cross-shop. It appears Nissan will have created yet another niche in a very small market with the new GTR.
Good, bad, or ugly... one thing is for sure the new GTR is coming and the demand will likely far outpace supply for the first two years.
Go forth and enjoy speed!
_AL
05-03-2007 | 11:24 PM
#18
GTR Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 36
Just thought I'd chime in here..... As a owner of a 07 Z06 and menber of corvetteforums and as a menber of this site. I'd like to show you what I wrote in that heated debate on the Vette forums.
I wrote:
Hey guys I think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. Speculation……Speculation!
As a person that has a 1k deposit and a notarized agreement at MSRP on a 08 GT-R from a large multi – brand dealer in my area….and yes I know somebody at the dealer. Unlike what someone posted there are some dealers taking 10k deposits on the GT-R but like the Z06 in 06 most dealers will have market adjustments on the GT-R when they first hit our showrooms. Nissan is only importing 1800 total of them into the US. MSRP should be right around 70k on the TT model. There is supposed to be another non – turbo base model. Again..Speculation!
I ‘m very interested in this car as a project car…..and the reasons why are that the shop that built our 710whp Evo. AMS – Automotosports in Chicago (kind of like the LPE, Vette Doctors, etc. of the Evo community) were at the SEMA show in Las Vegas this year and they have been expanding into building, tuning other cars other than Evos. They talked to some higher ups at the Nissan booth. This car is going to have a stock block that can support up to 800hp which opens up a lot of doors. This is what has our interest in this car. The potential of the motor. Most likely that is when the Evo goes up for sale. We will most probability be doing a joint build along with AMS on this car. I will not go into details on this project yet…..as promised.
Anyway the new awd GT-R which will most likely have between the rumored but not confirmed horsepower numbers of 450 on the low side and 500 on the high. (In fact latest has it at 470hp)
The target car that the GT-R is aimed at is the Porsche 997TT. Not the Z06.
I highly doubt that a stock GT-R will outperform a stock Z06, and most definitely in straight-line acceleration or top end based on hp vs weight of both cars. I do think that on a short track with a lot of tight turns it will give a Z a good race….since a 997TTdoes. Again this is only speculation.
As someone noted earlier, I hope that this horsepower war which we are in (and loving it) does not come back to bite us in the a** with all the environmentalists pushing for alternative engines, fuel and stricter emissions. Although I have to say there are shops out there experimenting with E85 that are getting almost race gas performance out of this low cost corn based fuel.
I didn’t buy the Evo for looks although it does have a rawness to it that grew on me with time and HP
. The GT-R IMHO does not look as good as the Z06 which I happen to love especially in Blk LOL. But I can see the GT-R in race form and I think it will look aggressively handsome.
Some people are probably going to say then why don’t you build/ modify your Z……well that’s another story ……see ya this winter ….Katech.
I also wrote:
I agree I haven't got any new info on the GT-R that I have on order from my very informed dealer in a while and last time I talked to him he said he knew of only one model and that is the TT that many of you have seen on the videos of the GT-R flooting around. I have read about the V-Spec version that will follow but if they do build it I'm sure Japan will get it first. He** we may not even that car over here.
Lets not talk about things that are that far into the future. We know the GT-R will be here in and around March - April of 08. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.
BTW as stated in my dealer agreement I have the right refuse the car if it does not meet up to what I expect out of this car. I put my money down based on on the history of this car ( brand ) rumor, speculation and the words of the guys at the shop that built my Evo.
If the car meets up to all the hype then it will be in my garage and if not something else will.....but I do think the GT-R will be special.
I see the same debate starting to happen here.......Lets just wait and see what the new GT-R brings to the table as far as performance.
JMHO
I wrote:
Hey guys I think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. Speculation……Speculation!
As a person that has a 1k deposit and a notarized agreement at MSRP on a 08 GT-R from a large multi – brand dealer in my area….and yes I know somebody at the dealer. Unlike what someone posted there are some dealers taking 10k deposits on the GT-R but like the Z06 in 06 most dealers will have market adjustments on the GT-R when they first hit our showrooms. Nissan is only importing 1800 total of them into the US. MSRP should be right around 70k on the TT model. There is supposed to be another non – turbo base model. Again..Speculation!
I ‘m very interested in this car as a project car…..and the reasons why are that the shop that built our 710whp Evo. AMS – Automotosports in Chicago (kind of like the LPE, Vette Doctors, etc. of the Evo community) were at the SEMA show in Las Vegas this year and they have been expanding into building, tuning other cars other than Evos. They talked to some higher ups at the Nissan booth. This car is going to have a stock block that can support up to 800hp which opens up a lot of doors. This is what has our interest in this car. The potential of the motor. Most likely that is when the Evo goes up for sale. We will most probability be doing a joint build along with AMS on this car. I will not go into details on this project yet…..as promised.
Anyway the new awd GT-R which will most likely have between the rumored but not confirmed horsepower numbers of 450 on the low side and 500 on the high. (In fact latest has it at 470hp)
The target car that the GT-R is aimed at is the Porsche 997TT. Not the Z06.
I highly doubt that a stock GT-R will outperform a stock Z06, and most definitely in straight-line acceleration or top end based on hp vs weight of both cars. I do think that on a short track with a lot of tight turns it will give a Z a good race….since a 997TTdoes. Again this is only speculation.
As someone noted earlier, I hope that this horsepower war which we are in (and loving it) does not come back to bite us in the a** with all the environmentalists pushing for alternative engines, fuel and stricter emissions. Although I have to say there are shops out there experimenting with E85 that are getting almost race gas performance out of this low cost corn based fuel.
I didn’t buy the Evo for looks although it does have a rawness to it that grew on me with time and HP
. The GT-R IMHO does not look as good as the Z06 which I happen to love especially in Blk LOL. But I can see the GT-R in race form and I think it will look aggressively handsome.Some people are probably going to say then why don’t you build/ modify your Z……well that’s another story ……see ya this winter ….Katech.
I also wrote:
I agree I haven't got any new info on the GT-R that I have on order from my very informed dealer in a while and last time I talked to him he said he knew of only one model and that is the TT that many of you have seen on the videos of the GT-R flooting around. I have read about the V-Spec version that will follow but if they do build it I'm sure Japan will get it first. He** we may not even that car over here.
Lets not talk about things that are that far into the future. We know the GT-R will be here in and around March - April of 08. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.
BTW as stated in my dealer agreement I have the right refuse the car if it does not meet up to what I expect out of this car. I put my money down based on on the history of this car ( brand ) rumor, speculation and the words of the guys at the shop that built my Evo.
If the car meets up to all the hype then it will be in my garage and if not something else will.....but I do think the GT-R will be special.
I see the same debate starting to happen here.......Lets just wait and see what the new GT-R brings to the table as far as performance.
JMHO
05-04-2007 | 12:29 AM
#19
GTR Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
E-threats, nice...
I dont doubt the history of the GT-R and if you study your history books so well, you'll know that the GT-R is only revered to a higher level here because they have (until recently) been so hard to obtain. Let anyone who lives in the east tell you, that GT-R's are common place and, though great performers, are no magic car, especially by todays standards. I guess in all your studies in your GT-R history books you attain the ability to look past the obvious:
-The car will be heavy
-The car will be AWD
-The car will be underpowered (by todays standards)
-I know you've seen the videos of the GT-R losing to the 997 turbo at Infineon raceway and barely besting it at another, how do you think the car will go from barely hanging with the 997 turbo to beating the Z06 and nearing the Carrera GT, I'm positive there are no carrera gt's in your history books
There is a reason Nissan officials target the 997 turbo, because it's the only top of the line porsche that the GT-R even has a chance of beating. GT3 (NO!) GT2 (double no!!!) Carrera GT (have you lost your mind???). The fact of the matter is that Japan has gotten left behind by their self imposed horsepower regulations and it takes a hell of a lot more to be top dog in these times than it did before. you cant ignore that no matter what history book you are reading.
I'm glad you guys love your car and brand, nothing wrong with that but you have to look at the facts as well, the GT-R will be a great car, no doubt, but top dog is out of reach (by far) for this one.
I dont doubt the history of the GT-R and if you study your history books so well, you'll know that the GT-R is only revered to a higher level here because they have (until recently) been so hard to obtain. Let anyone who lives in the east tell you, that GT-R's are common place and, though great performers, are no magic car, especially by todays standards. I guess in all your studies in your GT-R history books you attain the ability to look past the obvious:
-The car will be heavy
-The car will be AWD
-The car will be underpowered (by todays standards)
-I know you've seen the videos of the GT-R losing to the 997 turbo at Infineon raceway and barely besting it at another, how do you think the car will go from barely hanging with the 997 turbo to beating the Z06 and nearing the Carrera GT, I'm positive there are no carrera gt's in your history books
There is a reason Nissan officials target the 997 turbo, because it's the only top of the line porsche that the GT-R even has a chance of beating. GT3 (NO!) GT2 (double no!!!) Carrera GT (have you lost your mind???). The fact of the matter is that Japan has gotten left behind by their self imposed horsepower regulations and it takes a hell of a lot more to be top dog in these times than it did before. you cant ignore that no matter what history book you are reading.
I'm glad you guys love your car and brand, nothing wrong with that but you have to look at the facts as well, the GT-R will be a great car, no doubt, but top dog is out of reach (by far) for this one.
you're a newbie and much of what you say above needs some guidance. the HP restriction status has changed, please browse some GT-R ethos or history. GT-Rs are not all commonplace, GT-R will not have a headline of "barely hanging with" the 997tt ...
i want to take the point of view of helping you out instead of just flaming you only. so if you are a performance enthusiast --in general-- please google the following combinations of terms to learn about the origins of the GT-R, it's heritage, and what may very well be engineered into the new GT-R:
Bathurst
Godzilla
R32 GT-R
Prince Skyline S54
Skyline 2000GT-R
Japanese Gran Prix
KPGC10
R390 GT1
Nurburgring 24 hrs endurance
GT-R production numbers
bonded aluminum moncoque
Ferrari Enzo monocoque
Lotus Exige moncoque
racing VQ
VQHR
Infiniti Pro Series
Super GT
JGTC
R34 GT-R Z-Tune v McLaren F1
ATTESA ETS Pro
HICAS
MR suspension
variable geometry turbo
electronic assist turbo
Ferrari 599 GTB, superfast shifting
Last edited by bonzelite; 05-04-2007 at 01:53 AM.
05-04-2007 | 12:34 AM
#20
GTR Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
heavychevy, go here and start reading away. just go to any page and start reading:
http://forums.gtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=97
http://forums.gtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=97